@strypey intresting its a similar base idea but 100x more complex and upside down. In that its a technological project creating a social project. Were the #OMN is a #KISS social project creating a technological project.
> 100x more complex
... than what?
@witchescauldron you're not comparing apples with apples. One of these is a software dev project. The other is a cluster of independent media projects.
@strypey have a look here for the codeing side of the #OMN project https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/Open-Media-Network/wiki
Its a social project turned into code, rather than a codeing project turned in a society.
@witchescauldron I don't understand what you mean by. ..
> social project turned into code
... or ...
> codeing project turned in a society
@witchescauldron what do you mean 'if it happens'? They have published code under free licenses. It's happening!
@strypey am not judging this project.
Some underlying thought: 95% of open source projects are obviously pointless. 4% of open source projects fail due to complexerty and bad UI. That leaves 1% that are potentially usefull.
At the moment this area is largely #activertypub codebases.
searx is a way of adding general web search access to this wider network.
> searx is a way of adding general web search access to this wider network.
So ... what exactly is it you want to do?
a) add something to #Searx so it searches the fediverse (just hashtags or total keyword search of all posts?)
b) add general web search to fediverse instances
d) something else
@xj9 @strypey the project i like to point to as an example. The indymedia project an early alt-media network that spread the use of open source software and #4opens organizing around the world at the turn of the century. In the UK the was a #geekproblem vs #openweb fight that became nasty over what we would now understand as "activertypub" the fedivers vs more centralized silo approach. In the UK this stress point was fought as a proxy war over #RSS
@xj9 @strypey the #openweb aggregation side were sold a dud by the #fashernistas being swayed by the #geekproblem It was obvious that the project had to change and move away from central servers to a more aggregation model. BUT the movement was torpedoed by an obviously pointless opensource project instead of implementing a existing standerds based RSS they created there BETTER, BRIGHTER flavor which was of coures incomparable with everyone else.
@xj9 @strypey this is an example of a "better" but obviously pointless open source project and also destructive behaver. The #indymedia project in the UK was ripped apart internally from this same devide in the end. A bad "open source" outcome. You can find similar behaver today in the fedvers if you look.
I still have no idea what you mean by either of these hashtags. It sounds like UK #Indymedia had a difference of opinion between geeks that favour decentalization and aggregation, and geeks that favour centralization and moderation. Why is only one of these the "geek problem"?
3) #openweb being sidelined by the rest
1) The first resisted and blocked aggregation and #RSS from privacy and "securaty" issues.
2) The second is a obviously failed compromise by keeping control of "there" own better, non comparable RSS format.
3) The last, the one the whole project was based on were ignored and sidelined.
The #IMC project became irrelevant and died.
"A large part of this is our fault. And, by us, I mean gatekeeping nerds. We developed tools which were unforgiving. We had no interest in the "soft" skills of empathy. We were too socially-awkward to speak to real users. We were insular and we liked it! Worse than that - we revelled in it."
> i asked to be untagged so please be polite and untag
I agree that respecting your request is common courtesy, but just out of curiosity, does your client not have a 'mute conversation' function?
> my view of the future of computer: https://xj9.io/posts/2019/programming-for-the-next-billion/
The primary reasons #Indymedia died, as a broad-based media network, were IMHO:
a) it depended utterly on coding and sysadmin skills that, even then, were attracting huge salaries
b) the constitutional agreements of the network effectively forbid paying those people
c) it fell into the same orgy of attack politics we've seen on the fediverse, making it socially impossible for all but the most flawlessly PC radical left geeks to stay involved
@Indymedia @witchescauldron @clacke
Given those 3 facts, and the massive amount of #VentureCapital flowing into startups, which (in theory) allowed geeks to develop software useful to independent media efforts while getting *well* paid, it was inevitable that @Indymedia would bleed tech support volunteers, and fail to recruit many new ones (if any). This gradually but inevitably shifts decision-making power over whatsoftware gets developed, and how it gets deployed, from activist networks to capitalists.
What @Indymedia could have done, once these problems started to manifest, was negotiate some modifications to it's constitutional agreements. Changes allowing worker-owned cooperatives to be full members of the network, as well as #IMC collectives. This would have created a way to fund both tech infrastructure and dev, under activist coordination, while allowing geek activists to work in their own social spaces, and get paid. This is the model I think is worth pursuing.
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke this aproch was tried by champagne IMC in the USA it did a lot of damage and no good. The is a space for non commercial software development. Its fine to have different points of view and the is value in a more #NGO aproch but #indymedia is clearly not the project for this aproch. Please respect diversaty of stratergys.
> this aproch was tried by champagne IMC
That's not possible. You can't enact a network-scale tactic in a single local collective. You may be remembering the UC IMC tactic of registering for NGO status and accepting grants from US Foundations. Which is a totally different thing from the model described in the posts you're replying to.
What is not fine is to use your world view as a #Block on other world views in the guises of "helping"
At the base of actavism is diversaty of stratagys, please respect this.
The is a role for commercial.
The is a role for not for profit.
The is a role for voluntary.
The is not a role for proxy fights leading to trolling.
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke pushing a volentery project into being a not for profit (coop) is not a diversaty of stratergys nor was it one when people tried the same 10 years ago. Indymedia is at its foundation a voluntary project. Its fine to build not for profit (coop) media projects, have seen hundreds of then grow wither and die over the last 10 years. A few are still growing in small ways. Please don't become a troll on this subject :)
As long as projects are #4open the is no reason not to have a happy diversity of stratagys in a wider network. The problem is when each of these go in different incombatable ways and create parrel networks, a all to common problem. The #OMN approach is designed to mediate this problem.
This is a part of the story, what i tell is a part of the story.
B) this is a good thing.
C) the mystical #geekproblem i keep talking about with the hundreads of examples over the last 10 years. The tech and process both ossifyed, it could not move or bend thus could not try and solve these issues. this killed it... and meany people were holding bloody daggers in hands that they did not see.
@strypey @Indymedia @clacke am only looking at forces that we (was deep in the trenches throught the bloody suiside/death of indymedia) had power over. So am ignoring what we don't have power over, the #deathcult as power matters. Wish fulfillment over things outside the scope of #DIY takes up way to much of our media time. Focues.
What did we have power over, what do we have power over now.
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