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Much contemporary social tech and progressive online politics has a pathetic agender. Have been talking to the crew to see if they understand any of this, they have nothing to say and do nothing. Have been outreaching to the and more radical crew and they have nothing as well.

It's a problem.

The second problem is that when they do see the first problem, which they will in the end.

They will simply repeat it.

It's a problem.

@Admin if you reach them in the same way as you write your posts, I am not surprised tbh.

@muppeth been on the ground for more than 30 years at 100s of campaigns. What we have online now very bad, do you have any ideas why?

@muppeth kinda get an echo of the pathetic nature we live in today from the passive aggression in so much diloge. Call shit by its name and hand out shovals is the way. What do you think?

@Admin 30 years ago we didnt have everyone using internet the way they are now. People are usually very ignorant and not willing to learn so they go for what's commercially available, easy to use and with network effect. Nothing imo has changed there. No matter how much you try to convince people to join alternative network, people dont understand it. Just like majority of people did not understand pirate radios or alternative zines/magazines 30 years ago.

I see you keep on blaming devs, platforms etc. but I dont think this is the issue but rather the simple fact that humans will always use comercial stuff simply because commercial platforms have money to funnel to marketing and pay to keep content on their end. No matter how good your platform is, unless you introduce all evil things to it like monetization, short attention span, incluencers, brands, marketing, commercials, drammas, so pretty much everything that is wrong with current facebooks and other walled gardens, essentially becoming one of them, you will always be the niche. That includes NGOs too.

@muppeth the is truth to this, but the devs are a first step to being the change/challenge we need. We would be deluded to run before we can walk.

Reach out and be the change, to the dev, the user expirence, to the UI crew, the admins, these we CAN reach.

@witchescauldron @muppeth Something that must play a role is that now people are simply tired of all this constant digital invasion and seeking attention, as all centralized social media degenerated (but all in their own unique inimitable ways), esp. after the pandemic

The fediverse is too niche to see this. But the signal/whatsapp story is instructive: signal is a very workable alternative but while it did make some inroads nowhere close to potential

@Admin Totally disagree. Also with your constant use of geekproblem tag and blaming people who usually dedicate their free time to write software. You are tyring to compete with corporations with budget as high as some of the european countries. And the fact is that all the things you keep pointing at are very subjective (UX for example). Looking how some of the corporate software is badly design thoguhtout the years (even facebook is not the easiest thing to use) I conclude that it is not the dev or UX to blame but simply people's habits and the fact that most people are not really familiar with tech and do not want to learn new things. My mom does not know anything about computers besides linux because that's what I installed her for net browsing. It is as hard for her to use windows as it is for non-tech windows user to use linux. Same goes for all the online platforms. People, because of the network effect, invested time to learn facebook and they are not going to learn anything else unless everyone is on that platform and in order to stay connected you are forced to learn.
Noone will move to fedi as long as the capital isn't there. Content creators that depend on ads revenue or other forms of support (patreon etc) will not risk moving to platform that does not quarantee numbers of views. Same goes for all influencers etc. and those are the poeple that in our society for some reason dictate what platform everyone else would use. You don't have theose on fedi because in fact the users of the fedi don't want that. It was one of big reasons why they moved away from commercial platforms. In order to compete with those commercial platforms you have to become one of them and as a result loose the alternative part of the fedi. It's the same as "destroying system from within". It will never happen because in the process you become the part of the system you were at first set to destroy.
So really don't know what your point normally is, but I do have to admit I don't like your tone and general blame you are putting on developers. Instead of demanding tone and blame, you perhaps could promote positive actions such as, contribution with code, themes, translations, texts, howtos, video tutorials etc. One does not need to be developer to help in development of alternative platforms. Calling everything a geekproblem and blaming poeple that devot their entire private life to building software isn't the right way imo.

@open risk

The fediverse is too niche to see this. But the signal/whatsapp story is instructive: signal is a very workable alternative but while it did make some inroads nowhere close to potential


Signal also has gotten good few million dollars funding and operates as a single entity. Even then, with all the extra money, they are showing already signs of evil (which imo comes from the fact htey became popular and with this more money is needed for day to day operation, which if you are "for free" you must find elsewhere) with the whole crypto currency thing.

@muppeth

You do know that I run 5 instances at and develop projects such as visionon.tv/videos/watch/1e221 and that I have developed way to meany projects over 30 years :)

What you say makes sense, have been saying the same thing for 20 years, but your is an easy to see example of the

Please address this to continue the conversation :)

@muppeth @witchescauldron it will be soon four decades since Stallman. The need for self-sovereign computing is now becoming acute as the "alternative" is becoming dystopic at a previously unthinkable rate. There is really no reason to get emotional, there is a trail of success and (mostly) failure, but winning organisms don't self-devour, they learn and adapt. Seeing evil around every corner is painting oneself in an impossibly narrow niche...

@openrisk @muppeth
in tech, the is an "invisible" ideological battle between open/closed in both the mainstream and the alt worlds.

In "progressive" tech we have a majority fighting for "closed" with limited understanding that this is a problem.

You do understand that building "closed" is a problem for left/progressive agenders...

Please tell me that you have some ideas about this :)

@openrisk @muppeth

* right wing is based on fear/control

* left wing is based on trust/hope

Almost everything is a right-wing project at the mo, this is as true of tech as it is of politics.

Hope this make the more easy to see.

@muppeth
"geekproblem tag and blaming people who usually dedicate their free time to write software."

I don't think that's what @witchescauldron means.

I finally learned where that hashtag came from (I think) via that Rebooting Indymedia video.

Indymedia had some very specific problems where (for example) somebody created their own RSS format instead of using a standard.

So it's more like being too clever for the purpose. Which that hashtag is another example of....

@alien23 if you care to take the time you can find out what it is from your list, if you can't do this then you are likely adding to the with no desire to mediate it.

Good to dig a bit, the is lots of composting needed :)

@witchescauldron Had gone through a good bit of material from you, and as noted here by another, still lacked an understanding of what #OMN was/is.

No real understanding of what exactly is meant by #climatechaos and I at best only theorize that #geekproblem is in some relation to computer I.T. related engineering.

A simple and direct solution struck as just to ask, but referencing back to a wealth of material that itself offers no direct explanation doesn't help on this end much.
Suggest looking to communicate at the level of ones audience.

As might be understood by researching my own public postings, personal primary focus and endeavors are in the arts, particularly "music".....
I hold no expectation that you've taken the time to understand this.

@alien23 unite.openworlds.info/Open-Med its a very simple project "The project is more important for what it DOES NOT DO, than what it does do, useing technology to build human networks. There are ONLY 5 main functions: "

is an example.

@alien23

is simply an explanation of what we are starting to expirence now with the much more softly name "climate change" the is a video I helped make 20 years ago, which sadly I can't find online any more, likely been taken off the web for copyright. Will dig it up and repost it on the peertube one I get the time.

@alien23

is a metaphor for a failed idea of modernity that is in a "perverted" form still strong in tech/geek subculture. Of course, it is NOT pejorative as the can be as with everything it's about balance, not black and white.

@Admin My problem with your writtings is that it looks like you are the only one that understands what all those hashtags mean. I dont. and by the looks of it noone else does. And this was my initial post in this thread. If the way you speak to others is the same as your posts, no wonder they dont understand you. You speak in code language that is hard to read and comprehend.

@muppeth will let you mull on that one, can you find a way out of the mess :)

@muppeth PS. good to try as hard as you can not to be blind and

Moving away from the is a needed thing...

What is the ?

And yes these are metaphors, if you try and cut them up with a knife you will have nothing.

@Admin I see there is no point in continuing this as you are unable to explain what are you talking about. As long as you do not want to take part in the conversation but just keep using your own hashtags everywhere without much reason and explanation what do you mean by that (throwing some riddles like senteces or images that are so open for any kind of interpretation)

what do you understand by this?


That you are wrong. If you mean that there are no alternatives to current corporate/commercial platforms. We pretty much have everything we need on the level of multibillion corpos. Looking at the distant past it has always been the case. New world as you call it runs smoothly since 90s without the issues. Taking in consideration all kind of aspects. From decentralization, federation, peer to peer stuff but also with small web, gemini, tilde etc. to account for climate disaster we are about to hit yet still be connected (mesh networks).

If you mean that the issue is that mainstream isn't using it, then I think I already explained. In order for mainstream to use it you woul dneed to become mainstream with all the bad things that come with it that made you look at alternatives in the first place, essentially forcing you to create new alternative as your current one will be rotten by commercial interest, dumbing down of content, flexing, ads, etc.

@muppeth this is a two faced reply- one and the second playing the blindness game.

"That you are wrong" is silly as the is likely 90% agreement - BLOCKING

The 10% left hidden by the blindness game is about agencencey for change - thus the paths we can/need to take.

This makes you uncomfortable.

Monsters, am saying they are on the path you are taking, and they are dressed in the cloths of your friends, you are saying they are down the path you refuse to see.

@muppeth hope this is helpful in illustrating why this conversation at root is about blocking and blindness "Much contemporary social tech and progressive online politics has a pathetic agender."

@Admin again. All you did is throw some words that sound good, YOUR (tm) hashtag and a picture that can be interpret in many ways instead of writing what you have in mind. It feels like reading someone what only uses emojis to communicate.

Or I am too stupid to understand what you're witting....

@muppeth echo echo echo

CLEARLY and is likely from blindness... they are useful metaphors. You used to hide some "unconsuers" malaise, I see it a lot, talk about this issue on my blog.

Now is the hope for you or are you COMPLETE useless, let's see.

@witchescauldron
I see a lot of "I am superior and you are not" in your responses to
@muppeth

Maybe I'll think of a new hashtag for that...

@bhaugen @muppeth I have talked to muppeth before (unite.openworlds.info/muppeth?) and found them useless and actually damaging, am talking to them agen to see if they have "grown" out of the mess or not. This time they engage in a better way, not saying much better, let's see.

"Now is the hope for you or are you COMPLETE useless, let's see."

If interested, see my posts on about who and why I think a class of people like this are empirical useless in the sense of progressive tech and society.

@witchescauldron @muppeth has been very helpful to me in using disroot offerings, and I expect they also maintain some of those offerings. So I think they are objectively useful.

@bhaugen @muppeth not making a judgment on howto.disroot.org/en as this is a simuler project to the first step we do on the project (unite.openworlds.info/explore/) so good and worth doing :)

So you vouch @muppeth is worth taking time over, let's see :)

@witchescauldron
I don't vouch that you should argue with
@muppeth and that argument will have improved the world situation in any way.

@bhaugen @muppeth

That's why I added the "lets see" at the end, so they could end the conversation as the is little bridge building going on.

@bhaugen @muppeth

" is a metaphor for a failed idea of modernity that is in a "perverted" form still strong in tech/geek subculture. Of course, it is NOT pejorative as the can be as with everything it's about balance, not black and white."

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@bhaugen @muppeth

For a we need a working radical grassroot media project for groups like this to use

"Why block the road youtu.be/wOrqiFTuCgk Insulate Britain Block M25 near Heathrow"

You can find a outline for rebooting one here visionon.tv/videos/watch/1e221

Would be "useful" :)

@bhaugen @muppeth

The recent court victory highlights this recurring issue.

"Nothing new with problems with the police lying and pushing bad agenders visionon.tv/videos/watch/ae411 the police keep making this mess"

Nothing currently on the openweb works for these agenders

Would be "useful"

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@witchescauldron
Will watch Indymedia Reboot. Thanks for posting something that could be useful.

@muppeth

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@witchescauldron
There's an assumption of personal superiority that infects many arguments these days.

It's different from (but can be related to) #stupidinvidualism

@muppeth

@bhaugen @muppeth

We all suffer from it is bred by the last 40 years of forced social change/challenge. So you are right in a general way :)

@muppeth

Yes you are right in the first paragraph.

Everything eales is the talking, not that its wrong, just that its pushing the "pointlessness" this is coverd eles were.

@muppeth the idea here is that the is described by and blindness. So yes you are right that you do not understand the value in what i say, this is the yes you are right that this is a circal and you think it's a waste of time and focus. Nothing you say is wrong, that's the problem.

It's pretty simple, like all the hashtags.

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