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Funding is always dispoled and pored down the drain - it’s a normal outcome - so best not to stress about this.

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@mike_hales
Some traditions of assemblies are evolving recently, though, so some form of "assembly of the fediverse" would seem possible.

@dajbelshaw @witchescauldron @mako

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@bhaugen 2of2
Important in commons thinking is, it dives under modernist democracy traditions, to older forms of culture. Eldership, evolved wisdom. The nordic ‘Thing’. The commons Court. A weave of rights of contributing, of enjoying and of governing. Stewardship is not at all the same value-weave as electoral democracy or modern ownership, urgently needed today?

This doesn’t hold ‘an answer’ but it poses some necessary different questions? Experimental!

@dajbelshaw @witchescauldron @mako

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@witchescauldron @dajbelshaw @mike_hales

The notion that "science" people run the world is self-delusional. Apart from the obvious aspect of complexity and the law of unintended consequences, this tiny remaining sliver of control over the course of events has been a long time ago taken over by the owners, who set rules.
Capitalist civilization -- currently dominating at the planetary level -- is built upon and for the oligarchy.
Leaving owners out of equation creates false dichotomy and stipulates conflict among those owned (present company included).
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@bhaugen
Seems to me multistakeholder coop is not yet a well-settled form of practice, still very much a field of exploration - and hard to achieve, bleeding edge. The legal forms may be on the books, but that’s not the story of how you do in on the ground. So I think ‘familiarity’ isn’t where multistakeholder practice is at, yet.

As for commons . . How to oversee the overseers? Yep. The megaquestion!
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@dajbelshaw @witchescauldron @mako

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@dajbelshaw
The question in the toot was/is a real one, yes!
>So why doesn't #coop follow automatically, as we talk tools? How does libre not equal coop in FLOSS world?

But the matter of geek sovereignty is another Q. Geek producer-worker coop sovereignty over code is surely not 'the answer'? A commons of code-running-on-devices can't be governed as a worker coop. Even multistakeholder coop ¿isn'?t a big-enough governance formula?

But what? Ongoing question, this one
@witchescauldron @mako

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@mike_hales
> Even multistakeholder coop ¿isn'?t a big-enough governance formula?

It's at least a known legal form of organization, if legality and familiarity matter.

If by "commons" you mean Ostrom-style, those had governing bodies that were more like overseers. How is that better? How do the overseers get selected and governed?

@dajbelshaw @witchescauldron @mako

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@dajbelshaw
¿Arises in a 'libertarian-individual sovereignty' gene in anarcho traditions, inherited by geek-sovereignty traditions of the web? Only half joking 🙄

Geek soverignty? NO thank you! @witchescauldron was surely on to it, saying geek procedural enthusiasm must have stifled any amount of social creativity and wider participation.

If "commons of running code" is the ambition (vs commons of code-repo) geeks don't get to be sovereign. They get to be servants to ordinary humans.
@mako

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So, what's happening here . . this page at Grant for the Web
grantfortheweb.org/blog/2020-f
mentions @FreeScholar @disco_coop @lynnfoster @ntnsndr @datatitian georgia bullen (simply secure/meet.coop) daniel harris (kendra.io)
What's this Web Monetization thing? And why is it OK, when oligarch-centralist monetization has wrought so much havoc on the web? Do tell . .

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Puzzled . . @mako makes a clear pitch on "Free software production needs free tools" youtube.com/watch?v=U_nK6nP_RC
And is very clear on #commons and #P2P (though says most code comes from solo not collaboration!). Yet not a hint of coop ownership of #platforms to keep tools honest & open (GitHub!). Surely tools today become platforms? And platforms require collaboration even if code doesn't? So why doesn't #coop follow automatically, as we talk tools? How does libre not equal coop in FLOSS world?

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I've had an awareness for a couple of years, of Zuckerberg's intention to steal banking from the bankers, and pull the world's poorest smartphone users into a sticky platform-banking web. On cue, here comes #libracoin!
See @matslats of the #OpenCreditNetwork, on Libracoin
opencredit.network/2019/07/24/

And more here on class war among the old and new bankers
noncorporate.org/build-global-
Slugging it out soon with China?

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@amsomniac
'The analytics mindset' of silicon valley oligarchs, alt-right and security services surely is a problem. But complex systems with emergent form are real, and seems to me it will be good if 'we' can be tooled up to observe the emergent pattern of our own activity in the large. Their activity too! Just like statistics have been double edged for several generations (lies, damn lies etc) analytics are double edged.
@Anarkat

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@witchescauldron @gubi
Examples exist in the form of community-driven infrastructure initiatives. In the area close to what we are discussing, I would start from wireless networks (ref: librerouter.org/, netcommons.eu) and energy co-ops (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_…). There is a movement for platform co-ops (platform.coop/) and as far as I can see, many interesting things happen outside Global North.
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The liberal foundation model will be forced onto us if the Fediverse is taken up buy large Burocratic orgs like the and yes the will be a figleaf of “democracy” placed over the self-selecting oligarchy that will be put into place by “power politics” that this path embeds.

This path is the default outcome.

Should we do something that is native to the Fediverse, and what would this look like?

We currently have a Herding cats governance in the Fediverse and the projects that make it up

An idiom denoting a futile attempt to control or organize a class of entities which are inherently uncontrollable

This was very evident in the outreach to the project.

We have the A but we do not have the O - we are asking what would the O look like in a online social tech project?

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